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Dissing Delenn

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  • Dissing Delenn

    ... I recall Commander Sinclair's little talk with LtCmdr Ivanova in the very first episode, discussing possibilities as to who might have attacked the Centauri colony of Ragesh III. "It wasn't the Minbari", said Sinclair, "They are honorable..."

    ... well, is that so, Commander? Let's take a look at Delenn's actions shall we?

    ... First Season, "Legacies". The dead body of the highly honored Minbari general, the Shai'Alit, has gone missing. It has been stolen... STOLEN BY DELENN.
    ... She stands beside Neroon with an expression of absolute outrage, speaking to / yelling at Sinclair, "This is a grave offense, Commander! Unforgiveable!"
    ... Later, a piece of the Shai'Alit's burial robe is discovered in the Alien Sector, outside the Pak'Ma'Ra's quarters - the carrion eaters... Which means Delenn has set up the poor Pak'Ma'Ra to get their stomachs pumped and have their rights violated, only to buy time to cremate the stolen body no doubt...
    ... (anybody remember the episode in which it is revealed that "Minbari don't lie" ? )
    ... (To quote Delenn: "A half truth is the worst kind of lie" ...) Hypocrisy.
    ... Then Neroon and Sinclair get into an actual fist-to-cuffs and Neroon is ready to open fire on B5 with his war cruiser... all the while Delenn remains strangley silent . . .
    ... Then finally discovered, she plays it down - no big deal... The Shai'Alit was a priest as well as a warrior, so it's OK. Then she uses blackmail and threats to get Neroon to keep his mouth shut.
    ... Honorable? The Minbari, by and large, yes. Delenn... hardly.
    _________________________

    ... Moving along, it was Delenn who, kneeling over the body of Dukat who lie dying after an attack by an Earth Ship (B5 movie - "In the Beginning"), gave the vote that tipped the balance - to go to war with Earth. "They are animals!! Kill them all!!", she exclaimed.
    ... While her feelings were understandable, interesting, is it not, the fact that it was her rage-driven vote that nearly wiped out the human race, is never brought up during all 5 seasons? Does anybody even know? She has buried that dirty little secret quite well, I think.

    ________________________

    ... Then there is her "cultural superiority". As if, "Oh my, well you cannot possibly begin to understand our ways". Though never said as such, her manner clearly shows that this is her belief concerning most other races.

    ________________________

    ... Final comments...

    ... Season 3, when EarthForce ships have come to do battle with B5, civil war, B5 had beaten off the first wave, then another shows up. Sheridan knows they're all about to die... then a flight of Minbari war cruisers show up . . .
    ... Delenn: "Only one Earth captain has survived engaments with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me.." (great line).
    ... It's just that FACE... Her face saying those words... It just didn't seem right. I can't take it seriously. Granted, the Earth ships hauled ass, but I doubt it was Delenn's "fearsome expression" that motivated them. Neroon would have been great there! Could have said something Clint Eastwood-like, perhaps, "Go ahead. Make my cycle!"

    ____________________

    ... Mira Furlan did an outstanding job with Delenn. The character drives me batty!

    ... and I wonder if JMS might have modelled the Minbari on the Japanese to a certain degree...

    ... This string will probably die in a day or so, but it's raining, and I wanted to vent, for lack of better things to do. Just having some fun.

    ... Final comment: Found a pretty cool little B5 site just browsing around today:
    http://besterplace.green-sector.de/

    Cheers.
    "I think I'll pass on the tuna, thanks."

  • #2
    This looks like fun...let's see what I can come up with. Remember..."No one here, is exactly as they appear."

    Originally posted by The Puzzled Pak'Ma'Ra
    Let's take a look at Delenn's actions shall we?

    ... First Season, "Legacies". The dead body of the highly honored Minbari general, the Shai'Alit, has gone missing. It has been stolen... STOLEN BY DELENN.
    She felt she had to fulfill the wishes of her friend as well as to 'bring him back' to the Religious Caste ways.

    ... She stands beside Neroon with an expression of absolute outrage, speaking to / yelling at Sinclair, "This is a grave offense, Commander! Unforgiveable!"
    Yeah, politics is all playing to the audience...

    ... Later, a piece of the Shai'Alit's burial robe is discovered in the Alien Sector, outside the Pak'Ma'Ra's quarters - the carrion eaters... Which means Delenn has set up the poor Pak'Ma'Ra to get their stomachs pumped and have their rights violated, only to buy time to cremate the stolen body no doubt...
    Now, that *could* have been an accident, you know.

    ... (To quote Delenn: "A half truth is the worst kind of lie" ...) Hypocrisy.
    I thought that was Sinclair's line, not Delenn's.

    ... Then finally discovered, she plays it down - no big deal... The Shai'Alit was a priest as well as a warrior, so it's OK. Then she uses blackmail and threats to get Neroon to keep his mouth shut.
    Rank has its privileges.

    ... Honorable? The Minbari, by and large, yes. Delenn... hardly.
    It's an alien thing. If we can't even understand how respectful open gun ports are, how can we understand the nuances of Minbari honor?

    ... Moving along, it was Delenn who, kneeling over the body of Dukat who lie dying after an attack by an Earth Ship (B5 movie - "In the Beginning"), gave the vote that tipped the balance - to go to war with Earth. "They are animals!! Kill them all!!", she exclaimed.
    ... While her feelings were understandable, interesting, is it not, the fact that it was her rage-driven vote that nearly wiped out the human race, is never brought up during all 5 seasons? Does anybody even know? She has buried that dirty little secret quite well, I think.
    Now, now...she did try to stop it after that but wasn't able. Given their culture, it was difficult for her to finally strike out on her own and act as on individual convictions. As for her cover-up...Minbari are told only as much as they need to know, when they need to know it. Convenient, huh? She didn't invent it, just used it.

    ... Season 3, when EarthForce ships have come to do battle with B5, civil war, B5 had beaten off the first wave, then another shows up. Sheridan knows they're all about to die... then a flight of Minbari war cruisers show up . . .
    ... Delenn: "Only one Earth captain has survived engaments with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me.." (great line).
    ... It's just that FACE... Her face saying those words... It just didn't seem right. I can't take it seriously. Granted, the Earth ships hauled ass, but I doubt it was Delenn's "fearsome expression" that motivated them. Neroon would have been great there! Could have said something Clint Eastwood-like, perhaps, "Go ahead. Make my cycle!"
    Oh, I *loved* Delenn when she was pissed. The other one that had me cheering her on was whe she said "End this" when they went back to finish off the Drakh.

    ... Mira Furlan did an outstanding job with Delenn. The character drives me batty!
    Her work here is done.

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

    Comment


    • #3
      "Only one Earth captain has survived engaments with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me.." (great line).

      You know when I first saw the episode where this quote came from I still can't believe people actually like this quote and is for many there favorite of the entire series but for me it was a big YAWN and boring it certainly was not memorable in any way.
      Slightly off topic but I loved Delenn in season one she was so mysterius in her reasoning for being there and when she changed into a half human she became weak and a damsel in distress type.But Jan I think covered all questions and answers.
      Last edited by Satai Delenn; 11-04-2005, 06:30 AM.

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      • #4
        JMS always promised us humanly flawed aliens....boy did he deliver!
        John Brittain
        2blueshoes.com for free blues downloads

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Satai Delenn
          You know when I first saw the episode where this quote came from I still can't believe people actually like this quote and is for many there favorite of the entire series but for me it was a big YAWN and boring it certainly was not memorable in any way.
          Art is a very subjective thing, so you might instead say that you didn't find the quote memorable in any way. Clearly, if a large number of people watched that episode and found the quote memorable, something memorable was effectively communicated.

          I saw nothing of value in the film "Forrest Gump," but while I might say many things about its quality, even I can't deny the fact that many, many people were moved by it. Chacun Ó son go¹t, I suppose.

          Comment


          • #6
            Art is a very subjective thing, so you might instead say that you didn't find the quote memorable in any way. Clearly, if a large number of people watched that episode and found the quote memorable, something memorable was effectively communicated.


            I thought I put that in my post. That I didn't care for it wasn't memorable and was NOT communicated as being even worth remembering .If everyone thought the same thing whether it be a quote from a tv show or whatever this place would be stale.We'd look like a bunch of robots all agreeing on the same thing .The fact that I didn't makes me different from the norm.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Puzzled Pak'Ma'Ra

              ... Then there is her "cultural superiority". As if, "Oh my, well you cannot possibly begin to understand our ways". Though never said as such, her manner clearly shows that this is her belief concerning most other races.
              Uh? Never mind. lol

              Originally posted by The Puzzled Pak'Ma'Ra
              ... Final comments...

              ... Season 3, when EarthForce ships have come to do battle with B5, civil war, B5 had beaten off the first wave, then another shows up. Sheridan knows they're all about to die... then a flight of Minbari war cruisers show up . . .
              ... Delenn: "Only one Earth captain has survived engaments with the Minbari fleet. HE is behind me. YOU are in front of me.." (great line).
              ... It's just that FACE... Her face saying those words... It just didn't seem right. I can't take it seriously. Granted, the Earth ships hauled ass, but I doubt it was Delenn's "fearsome expression" that motivated them.
              [/SIZE][/FONT]
              Yes, it is that faceà My daughter and I always laugh when she criesà Hate to say it, but her expression while crying is funny.
              "The world is a dangerous place---not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it" --Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #8
                Delenn is as honorable as the next human . . . considering we spoiled their gene pool I can truly say that she's "only human"
                "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh, that's very dishonest of you...
                  Bringing out such criticisms of Delenn, why! the humanity!.
                  Such nitpicking while forgetting her very worst behavior!

                  She manipulated that poor innocent Lennier to fall in love with her, and then told Sheridan that she knew Lennier had feelings for her but didn't know they were so intense!
                  "Sorry honey, I never imagined that Lennier might try to leave you for dead and open the door for me to become the President of the Insterstellar Alliance."

                  That she had grown hair does not make this anything other than the bald faced lie it was!

                  She obviously flirted with Lennier to keep him as a faithful servant!
                  Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
                  James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Nah, she was just as devious as the rest. She just knew how to cover it up a bit better than most...

                    @Amy G : "B5 iz like a box uv chocelates, you never know what you gonna git".

                    - edit - BTW; Comic Sans MS??? Are we back in 1999 or something?
                    "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      BTW; Comic Sans MS??? Are we back in 1999 or something?
                      Towelmaster, this really made me laugh. It reminds me of when I used to regularly read webpagesthatsuck.com, the design professionals' site, and they'd talk about rotating rainbow divider bars and black backgrounds as being "very 90s".

                      On topic, sure, I think Delenn was flawed, but I also don't think that she was presented to us as anything else. That some chose to see her as a saint, or some kind of icon of perfection, and were thus disappointed by some of her actions and choices, is more a reflection on the interpretation of those particular viewers than on the character, IMHO.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        webpagesthatsuck.com!!! WOW! Blast from the past! Lemmehavealook...

                        Is this a website that sucks or what? http://www.northbridgepolice.com/
                        Last edited by Towelmaster; 11-09-2005, 01:30 PM.
                        "En wat als tijd de helft van echtheid was, was alles dan dubbelsnel verbaal?"

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                        • #13
                          Ugh, there's very little in web design that I hate more than that standard FrontPage repeating background. Except maybe...waving flags!

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                          • #14
                            ... I like Comic Sans... What's more important, I care not one whit what others think of me liking it.

                            ... Back on topic... I never even considered how Delenn emotionally abused Lenier, to create a servant ready to lay his life down for her... giving him nothing, really, in return.

                            ... And the transformation after the chryssalis (sp), the hair... building bridges between human and Minbari...? Or driving hooks into the Human captain's heart and... and, well his testicles. (Minbari love magic maybe)
                            .
                            "I think I'll pass on the tuna, thanks."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Delenn surely is the reason for thousends Minbari and moreso Humans (who sometimes happen to have Minbary souls) got killed... that said I don't think she fully understood what she had done, but I must say she is quite happy with that weight on her shoulders, isn't she?

                              But there is one another who is - at least partly - responsible. Londo... as he didn't give humans the information about the Minbary (e.g. their protocol regarding open gunports). And of course the Vorlons, but they are a quite different thought altogether *g*

                              Regarding the Lennier/Delenn thing I must say I can understand that Lennier was driven mad. I cannot understand why Delenn still kept him that near, after she knew his feelings. It's quite irresponsible, I think... The right think to do was Lennier going away, and Delenn didn't want him to leave!

                              PeAcE
                              greetings from austria, best known for its history and fine wine... feels like a wine cellar on a graveyard 8-)

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