Commander Susan Ivanova & Talia Winters

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

Greetings, 1 & all!

I began viewing BABYLON 5Ö when its pilot telefilm first aired on FOX, & was hooked immediately, although not without some reservation, truth be told.

I was quite taken by LYTA ALEXANDER as characterised by MS. PATRICIA TALLMAN, but not overjoyed by MR. JOHNNY SEKKA, whom I thought & felt was miscast, although I have enjoyed his feature film work over the years.
Also, I found LONDO MOLLARI difficult to take seriously, due to his clownish appearance, but that changed very rapidly, especially since MR. PETER JURASIK is 1 of the strongest castmembers.

Fortunately, however, I stuck with the series, despite my initial dislike of MR. MICHAEL O'HARE (over whose departure I wept when he was replaced by BRUCE BOXLEITNER, who also acquitted himself well), whom I found a bit stiff, & whom I first compared unfavourably to a SUPERMARIONETTEÖ.
This man made a believer of me within 3 episodes, whereas JERRY DOYLE took a lot longer, despite his resemblance to a JACK "KING" KIRBY character!

The prickly relationship between COMMANDER IVANOVA & TALIA WINTERS which became love was the most sensitively & deftly handled that I have seen in any episodic in my life as an Audient/Viewer.
Both were characters whom I had initially disliked as people, but whom I soon grew to respect & like.

When their relationship was sundered by the machinations of BESTER & PSI-CORPS, I was crushed, but liberated, for I realised that MR. JOSEPH MICHAEL STRAZCYNSKI had managed to manipulate all of my personal biases about not just them, but the entire cast of characters, so that those whom I had disliked in THE GATHERING became those whom I most liked @ the end of Season 5.

Pure genius.

[Ranger1]

Exactly the same thing here beside 1 thing: i loved Garibaldi from the first moment he appeared,i just love his attitude,but beside that exactly the same things you talked about happened to me.
I found the Sinclair character a bit stiff but got used to him and when he "had to go" i was like "OH NO OH NO" ,but then Bruce came and i loved that guys since his appearance in Tron so i knew things will be good (and i was RIGHT).

Btw do us all a favor and next time dump the red .... it hurts my eyes

[Kevin]

I think I might have been one of the few people who just really always liked all of the characters ;P They all stood for something else, and I guess in some way shape or form, I could always see a small, tiny bit of myself in each of them... enough for me to actually care about them. I think that's mostly due to the fact that JMS just makes his characters so... real.

If there was anyone I wasn't ever happy with, it was probably Talia; I can't say my opinion of her changed much from the first time I saw her, but then again I didn't dislike her; just was apathetic. If anything, it was probably my opinion of Sinclair that went through the most changes... from lack of an opinion (Gathering) to enjoyment (Infection) to being one of my favourite characters (And the Sky Full of Stars), to being my absolute *favourite* character (War Without End) from then to even now, after all these years.

Actually... on second thought, I wasn't too fond of Takishima, although I do kinda wish she had stuck around. Of all the "original" plot points that were changed, I'd have to say that that's the only one I think would have been better in it's original version, as I think it would have been a hell of a lot momentous if she had shot Garibaldi in the back then his aide, who was only in a few episodes.

Then again we don't really know what would have happened had Sinclair not left B5, but while I've always been quite curious about that subject, I also have a good deal of faith in JMS to believe that, for story purposes, what was done on the show (bringing in Sheridan) was almost certainly much better than anything originally intended

[sixpence]

Re: Commander Susan Ivanova & Talia Winters

Originally posted by MALCOLM XERXESÖ

BRUCE BOXLEITNER, who also acquitted himself well), whom I found a bit stiff, & whom I first compared unfavourably to a SUPERMARIONETTEÖ.

I must say that I loved B5 from day one and my admiration has not stopped growing. I think the cast was an ensemble one.

I can see why some might think Bruce Boxleitner seemed stiff at the very beginning, but he fell into the role, made it his own, and I cannot think of anyone I would rather have seen play Sheridan. Bruce Boxleitner's portrayal was fantastic! (as were all the rest).

I submit would anyone have wanted an exacerbating, overacting, hammy Captain Kirk in Sheridan's place? C'mon.

Cheers!!

[B5_Obsessed]

You cut that statement in half:

************************

Fortunately, however, I stuck with the series, despite my initial dislike of MR. MICHAEL O'HARE (over whose departure I wept when he was replaced by BRUCE BOXLEITNER, who also acquitted himself well), whom I found a bit stiff, & whom I first compared unfavourably to a SUPERMARIONETTEÖ.

************************

He was not calling Boxleitner stiff. He was referring to O'Hare.

[B5_Obsessed]

You cut the post in half:

Fortunately, however, I stuck with the series, despite my initial dislike of MR. MICHAEL O'HARE (over whose departure I wept when he was replaced by BRUCE BOXLEITNER, who also acquitted himself well), whom I found a bit stiff, & whom I first compared unfavourably to a SUPERMARIONETTEÖ.

Malcolm was referring to O'Hare, not Boxleitner.

[riku]

The charcter I disliked the most was Dr. franklin... the worst episodes were when they focused on him, cuz it's just about his uninteresting personallity, and pretty much pointless to the series. On some parts he was totally unnecessary in the main cast, seemed like jms forced himself to be there.

And why did he get an *also starring* credit in the beggining of the five seasons?
Garibaldi was sometimes unnecessary too although less than the doc, but I liked his personallity.

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

RANGER1,

I have never seen TRONÖ.

I am sorry that you find the use of red bothersome to your eyes, but I find it contrasts well with the colour scheme of this board.
Possibly, your eyes hurt because you need a prescription, need to reset your desktop display settings, or are spending too much time in front of your VDU.

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KEVIN,

I understand what you mean about the characters representing other than what they are, as well as seeing a piece of yourself in them.

I understand what you mean about the apathy towards TALIA WINTERS.
Let me ask you this: given that we had her dumped in our laps after having come to know MS. LYTA ALEXANDER, is it possible that you harbour a certain amount of resentment toward her as a viewer?
Also, given that the groundwork was being laid for her to be replaced by the other teep (whether because JMS had promised MS. PATRICIA TALLMAN that she would be permitted to return, or because LYTAÆS storyline was originally to be TALIAÆS), is it not possible that the direction MS. ANDREA THOMPSON was given & the choices she made as an actress were leading up to her dissociative alienation from the other characters?

I grok the fullness of the totality concerning COMMANDER SINCLAIR, whom I respect greatly, & would obey his orders without question, were I under his authority.

The character portrayed by MS. TAMLYN TOMITA was not bothersome to me, but neither did I particularly like or respect the character.
I would have obeyed her because she was my superior officer.
I agree; it would have been great if she had shot MICHAEL GARIBALDI, although it would have meant COMM. SINCLAIRÆS sharing the emotional burden of having been a bad judge of character.

That said, I took a few episodes to warm up to COMMANDER SUSAN IVANOVA, whom I found overly ôbutchö for its own sake, as though she was trying too hard to assert her authority.

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SIXPENCE,

B5 OBSESSED is correct.

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B5 OBSESSED,

Thank you for interceding on my behalf.

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RIKU,

I had a similar reaction to DR. FRANKLIN, @ first, but I was unsure whether it was the character as scripted, or the actor, who was far more dynamic & vital in his delivery than MR. JOHNNY SEKKA had been.
In all fairness, however, English is that manÆs 2nd language.
I did not really begin to grok DR. FRANKLIN until he violated the wishes of the alien JHVHÆS Witnesses about the surgical procedure on their dying son, & the episode titled ôGROPOSö, wherein he clashed with his father.

I am speculating, but I would imagine that the ôAlso Starringö screen credit was the result of agent/publicist/manager negotiation in addition to, or in lieu of, an increased fee.

[Ranger1]

Originally posted by MALCOLM XERXESÖ
RANGER1,

I have never seen TRONÖ.

I am sorry that you find the use of red bothersome to your eyes, but I find it contrasts well with the colour scheme of this board.
Possibly, your eyes hurt because you need a prescription, need to reset your desktop display settings, or are spending too much time in front of your VDU.

Well first you should see Tron,very good movie,and even if you wont like it,just for seeing Bruce (damn he almost haven't changed in appearance..well beside those big kick ass glasses).

Second: yeah its true that i use high resolution,spending too much time infront my monitor,drink lots of coffee,smoke a lot,typing,reading,talking (all at once i might add),but your red still hurts.

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

Thank you for acknowledging the possibility of my theory.

[OmahaStar]

Originally posted by MALCOLM XERXESÖ
Thank you for acknowledging the possibility of my theory.

Go back under your bridge.

[LytaaaarGh]

Hi guys

I have to say that I too pretty much loved all the characters from the Pilot (just been watching it too!) - I especially liked Takashima, thought she carried her part well and though while Ivanova's character was brought in to replace her when Tamlyn (sp!) wasn't available, i felt like the Ivanaova character never sat as well with Claudia. (though she made the part more her in season 3&4)

yeah and O' Hare WAS cheesy in the beginning
Cheese to die for

Could never possibly choose my favourite character, changed every episode... but Lyta rocked ofc.

[MALCOLM XERXESÖ]

BABYLON 5Ö: THE GATHERINGÖ

LTTAAAARGH,

Hello, welcome to the domain!

ItÆs always difficult to judge performances in SF on the basis of a pilot, since people are often ôfindingö their characters as they accustom themselves to the shooting schedule, so I see your points.

Full props for your sig' line!

[B5_Obsessed]

Originally posted by LytaaaarGh

I especially liked Takashima, thought she carried her part well and though while Ivanova's character was brought in to replace her when Tamlyn (sp!) wasn't available, i felt like the Ivanaova character never sat as well with Claudia. (though she made the part more hers in season 3&4)

yeah and O' Hare WAS cheesy in the beginning
Cheese to die for

I don't think Tamlyn was unavailable. I believe that she, Pat Tallman, and Johnny Sekka were not invited back by WB, who urged their roles recast or re-imagined. JMS, ever the crafty one, wrote their "hasty reassignments" into the story to lend a further air of mystery to the whole thing.

Andrea Thompson chose not to stay on since she felt she was not getting enough air time. JMS agreed to write her off and used the opportunity to bring Pat Tallman back. She was, after all, the first person he cast and always the person he had in mind for Lyta after seeing her in the remake of "Night of the Living Dead".

Sinclair was sometimes cheesy, sometimes stiff, and strangely enough... sometimes very good.

[Kevin]

Originally posted by B5_Obsessed
I don't think Tamlyn was unavailable. I believe that she, Pat Tallman, and Johnny Sekka were not invited back by WB, who urged their roles recast or re-imagined. JMS, ever the crafty one, wrote their "hasty reassignments" into the story to lend a further air of mystery to the whole thing.

Incorrect on two of them. Tamlyn wasn't very comfortable with the role and the sci-fi arena as a whole, and decided that she didn't want to continue with the series, wanting to concentrate more on her film career then getting thrown on TV. Patricia Tallman was pretty much a-go for quite awhile, but ended up having conflicts in contract negotiations (as well as a good deal of misunderstandings from the people on her side, I'm aware) that basically meant she wouldn't be returning either, much to JMS's dismay. Fortunetly he did get *quite* lucky in that she was avaliable to get back on the series later.

You were, however, correct about Johnny Sekka. JMS really didn't think the father-son relationship thing really worked at all, and decided to scrap it entierly in favour of a new doctor, one much more fresh and modern. I have to agree with him on that one, as Dr. Franklin made for a much more intresting character.