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I just noticed something strange...

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  • #1

    I just noticed something strange...

    Going through Midnight On The Fireing Line...yea starting over ...again!....I noticed in the conversation between Jeff and Kosh when Jeff cought Kosh out of his encounter suit.

    Jeff was saying something to Kosh about the Narns and the Centauri, and if the vorlons would help push through sanctions against the Centauri..and Kosh responded.....

    "They are alone....

    They are a dying people

    you should let them pass"...

    Sinclair...."who? the Narn or the Centauri?"

    Kosh......"Yes"


    now if I remember right ..the Vorlons watched over the younger races...and guided them..it was the Shadows mentality that would let the stronger races survive and grow....

    I guess it's just one of those things....
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  • #2
    I think...and this is just my opinion, mind...that Kosh may have just not worried about any race not 'destined' to achieve 'First One' status. JMS has said that neither the Narn or the Centauri get that advanced, while the Humans and Minbari do, so...

    On the other hand, he did care enough to 'visit' G'Kar's dust hallucination and turn him to the path he eventually followed. Londo, on the other hand, didn't see anything at all when Kosh left his encounter suit to rescue Sheridan.

    Hmmm...

    Jan
    "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

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    • #3
      There's a lot of little moments when the Vorlons and Shadows aren't shown to be always on only their own side of the order vs chaos fight. Justin's yelling to Sheridan, "But you do what you're told; and so will you!" is an instance of the Shadows employing a little unyielding order to try to advance their goals, for example.

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      • #4
        All this leads to a stronger argument against both the Vorlons and the Shadows. No single dogmatic principle can ever be truly enforced.

        These two races present "philosophical Wal-Marts" in which they supply all the answers. And we plucky humans figure out that sometimes you need to shop somewhere else or risk losing your soul...

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        • #5
          Hello to all on the forum. I am kinda new here so forgive if I am a little crap at this.

          I have an opinion - it may not be relevant - but here goes.....

          Lets summise Kosh could see into the future. He would see the war which was coming between the Narn and Centauri.

          However he could not see the future past his own death.

          Maybe he assumed they would indeed wipe each other out.

          thats my take on it - perhaps ( almost certainly ) i am wrong.

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          • #6
            AFAIK the Vorlons couldn't see into the future really.
            What Kosh knew about future events he knew from Valen/Sinclair.

            I think that somehow the "first-one status" races should somehow be able to evaluate which other races can reach that status, either by looking at their biology or culture, and that is all that was behind Kosh comment.
            Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase
            James Clerk Maxwell (1831-79)

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            • #7
              I am starting over again too (on "Psi War" in My BABYLON 5 IN 30 DAYS MARATHON ) and this being the *counts with his fingers* 7th time I've gone through it I think Kosh basically meant that they are going to destroy themselves because Sinclair will know of the events that will have happened through season 3. Delenn Knows Londo is in colaboration with the Shadows and they aided him in taking over the Narn homeworld. Londo had been touched by Shadows, which is why he saw nothing. I'm sure Kosh had some idea of what Then Centauri would end up suffering in making deals with the shadows so the best conclusion for both the Narns and Centauri is that they are a Dying People.
              "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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              • #8
                Well, Kosh said, "We are not interested in the affairs of others," or whatever it was exactly, yet...look at what the Vorlons do! This was probably just another one of Kosh's quirks.
                Recently, there was a reckoning. It occurred on November 4, 2014 across the United States. Voters, recognizing the failures of the current leadership and fearing their unchecked abuses of power, elected another party as the new majority. This is a first step toward preventing more damage and undoing some of the damage already done. Hopefully, this is as much as will be required.

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                • #9
                  They are ALL Kosh
                  "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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                  • #10
                    Well just for the sake of argument, as I really donÆt get into these sort of things, but.

                    There is also the possibility that time travel by those with first one status can effect the future development of certain races. The Vorlons did visit and alter races at the DNA level, now was that Vorlons of the past or was it recent oneÆs travelling back in time. Could the elevation to first one status be a ôrewardö of some kind. The Vorlons where waiting for Sinclair when he travelled back, helped in altering him and provided the Minbari with a religious Icon as well as ôdiluting their DNAö.

                    Humans themselves are eventually capable of doing it as well, so where they involved in altering things. And there is evidence to make you wonder.

                    The Rangers help ôguideö humanity to a more humane future, the human shuttle you see at the end of season 4, a million years in the future, has a Ranger insignia on it, and these million year shuttles where present at the destruction/decommissioning of Babylon 5, so they did/could travel back in time. So you have to wonder, where would they draw he line in ôhelpingö in the evolution of man kind. Without going into the theoretical do da of time travel either back or forward.

                    [Cheep plug here]
                    If you look at the new web site I set up, the threads on this page, look at the end of the Human section for the million year shuttle, then look at photograph 5, you will see 3 of the shuttles at the ceremony.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Number6
                      ...and these million year shuttles where present at the destruction/decommissioning of Babylon 5, so they did/could travel back in time...
                      OR! they could have had the same design of ship for that long.
                      "It is said that the future is always born in pain. The history of war is the history of pain. If we are wise, what is born of that pain matures into the promise of a better world, because we learn that we can no longer afford the mistakes of the past." -- G'Kar in Babylon 5:"In the Beginning"

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                      • #12
                        True, or the CGI team pressed the wrong button and imported them instead of Drazi Sun Hawks.

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                        • #13
                          The only hint of time travel was from the great machine on Epsilon 3..when it sent Jeff and Zathras back in time...and it never did say if there was any connection between it and the vorlons....

                          It's also funny how the help all of a sudden came to an end after the shadow war...except when Susan went down and saw Zathras for help with boosting the signal for the Voice Of The Resistance... I mean, if I had access to a machine like that....oh boy could I have some fun!!lol!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Jan
                            I think...and this is just my opinion, mind...that Kosh may have just not worried about any race not 'destined' to achieve 'First One' status. JMS has said that neither the Narn or the Centauri get that advanced, while the Humans and Minbari do, so...

                            On the other hand, he did care enough to 'visit' G'Kar's dust hallucination and turn him to the path he eventually followed. Londo, on the other hand, didn't see anything at all when Kosh left his encounter suit to rescue Sheridan.

                            Hmmm...

                            Jan
                            Are you sure that Londo saw nothing when Kosh emerged from his suit???

                            I always got the impression he saw something that terrified him and he didn't want to talk about it.
                            Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors... and miss.
                            Robert A. Heinlein

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Heinlein
                              Are you sure that Londo saw nothing when Kosh emerged from his suit???
                              Pretty sure. It was mentioned again in the Centauri trilogy which I just recently finished rereading. Londo seemed to regret not having had the same experience.

                              Jan
                              "As empathy spreads, civilization spreads. As empathy contracts, civilization contracts...as we're seeing now.

                              Comment

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